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Bad, Children, and Chill: * Watch Dra Cuddy:Mother Gothel by Aveku-chan-Kataang Customization /Wallpaper/ People / Females @2011-2016 Aveku-chan-Kataang YES! C'MON! 8DDD galotheshroom: ava-burton-writing: dragonenby: writingwithcolor: so-many-miles-to-go: aworldinneedofmagic: the-independent-jew: so-many-miles-to-go: smol-mother-rose: so-many-miles-to-go: Yeah, there’s a reason for that. It’s called: antisemitic caricature. I don’t understand what’s Jewish about mother gothel… she has a typical Disney face doesn’t she? Is it the curly hair..? I mean her nose and everything else seem normal? I’m sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. dark curly hair - long hooked nose - darker complexion than the blond blue eyed heroine 9and really the rest of the cast - portrayed as greedy and evil. Lisa Edelstein is Jewish.  As are Idina Menzel and Amy Winehouse, both of whom I have seen compared in looks to Gothel.  Gothel’s design is a pretty clear caricature of ethnically Jewish women.   This is a pretty good contrast between Rapunzel and Gothel.  Rapunzel has the “typical Disney face”: Here’s a more close up look at her features. The hooked nose becomes even more pronounced as she becomes “eviler.” If you wanted to claim that there was noting out of the ordinary for Disney animation when it came to Gothel’s features, you would have to find at least one Disney princess or heroine with similar characteristics (long hooked nose and dark curly hair, etc). But here is what we have is - small noses that turn up at the end: wide, flatter noses (though cheers to Disney for not putting button noses on their characters of color, although Esmerelda’s clothing design deserves another essay on Rromani stereotypes and there are some major issues with Pocahontas as well) And then a few misc noses (again, props for Jasmine’s nose not being a button): Apart from just the design of Gothel, there’s also the whole: “obviously ‘other’ (read Jewish) woman kidnaps the pretty blonde (read: gentile) kid to use her for ritualistic/magical purposes” Like that right there on top of the aesthetic Jewish-coding is what pushed the antisemitic caricature over the top for me.  It harkens back to antisemitic blood libel that claimed that Jews stole gentile children for all manner of nefarious reasons. Even when Gothel is in “mother” role to Rapunzel, she’s is shown as nagging and passive aggressive, both antisemitic stereotypes of Jewish women. There is no one thing that makes her an antisemitic caricature, but the design, plus the storyline she plays out, plus her characterization cement the overall character as antisemitic.   Jew-coding a villain is not in itself always antisemitic when there are also Jewish coded heroes. Rapunzel does not have that. Having a villain steal a baby for magical/ritualistic reasons is not always antisemitic as long as the villain is not Jew-coded.  Rapunzel fails this as well. Having a nagging and passive aggressive mother character is not antisemitic provided that she is not, again, coded as Jewish.  Rapunzel fails once again. Hope this helps. EDIT: @ariminak pointed out that some of my wording made it sound like Gothel’s features only stereotypically caricatured Ashkenazi women when in fact that is not the case.  I changed the language to remove that phrasing and make it clear that any ethnically Jewish women can be affected by this type of aesthetic trope. If you reblogged the old version, could you please delete it and reblog this one instead. Spread this version so people recognize that this stuff harms all Jewish women. omfg can y’all chill the fuck out, any race can be portrayed as hero or villain, it’s a fucking kids movie not a political statement So I’m guessing you’re white and a gentile. As such, you’ve more than likely grown up looking at tv and movies and fairytales and seeing your face in those of the heroes. Jewish people don’t get that.  When we are portrayed in live action, our characters are more often than not whitewashed and in other media, our features are used and caricaturized to create “evil looking” villains. You don’t see it because you’ve been ingrained with the idea that “ethnic” features are just “how you make a character look evil.”  You don’t look at Gothel and see your mother.  You don’t see yourself and your people.  You don’t see decades of propaganda aimed at fostering hate against you and ultimately seeking to destroy you.   But seeing how you also seem to think that saying you’re not attracted to an entire race of people ISN’T racist, you really don’t get any say on any of this. So really, you need to chill the fuck out and stop telling marginalized people to stop talking about the tools of our own marginalization. Let’s play a game I like to call: Movie Villain or Antisemitic Propaganda: Many “evil witch” tropes were built on European antisemitic stereotypes, not just in appearance but in the storylines they play out as well. Greediness, stealing children, killing children, hunger for power, etc.  Every time a movie villain design uses stereotyped Jewish features to communicate “evilness” to an audience, they perpetuate the marginalization of the people they are using.  One big issue I have is that Gothel’s didn’t start out as the antisemitic caricature that made it to screen.  Much of the early concept art has a more dark romanticism feel.   They changed the original design. Presumably to make Gothel more “other” from the good characters in the movie.  At some point, a decision was made that dark curly hair and a hooked nose wound better convey their villain. It really doesn’t matter if any of this was intentional, I’d actually bet that it wasn’t.  However, antisemitic tropes are so engrained in our societies that people like you, even when confronted with a step by step break down of what it is, feel comfortable thinking that there’s nothing wrong with it and mocking those calling it out as if we are overreacting. You seem to have completely ignored the majority of my post.  It is the character design, plus the characterization, plus the story line that mirrors blood libel that makes Gothel an antisemitic character.  It’s not just about someone of a certain race or ethnicity being a villain.  It’s about how stereotypes of a certain ethnic group are understood as “villainous” due to villains being repeatedly coded as Jewish over decades of film and tv. And contrary to your naive belief, all media is political to some extent. Every time a historically present minority is not included in film (ex: lily-white Harlem in Fantastical Beasts) or when a minority character is whitewashed, or when the “ethnic” features of a minority are used almost universally to portray bad guys, it is a political and social issue.  When you never see yourselves as the people who play the hero or even see your people existing in a portrayal of a place where they should be, it is not benign. Reblogging again for these additions. I’m not Jewish, but I can imagine seeing yourself villanized again and again must wear on you so hard (like queer coded villains do on me). The stereotypes are so insidious, I didn’t even realize she was Jewish coded until I saw this post for the first time, and since then I’ve been able to pick up on more anti-semitic media. Stay cognizant! This is a writing blog so fellow writers! Please take a good look at your villains— even if they’re not Jewish, it can be antisemitic. Thanks. - A Jew™️ I feel like you guys want to be offended. its called shape theory and character design. I haven’t met a single Jew that has a hooked nose and jews are not the only the only ethnicity with lightish brown skin and curly black hair. for example, ME I’m Mexican and have those features I have met a woman for MADRID who looks EXACTLY like the woman above. and her accent sounds a lot more Spanish than Jewish (which would make sense because Rapunzel takes place in Germany and Spain is pretty damn close by. Also she just straight up does not have a hooked nose. Not anything like those caricatures anyway. In the shot where she’s in profile it doesn’t look hooked at all.
Bad, Children, and Chill: * Watch
 Dra Cuddy:Mother Gothel
 by Aveku-chan-Kataang
 Customization /Wallpaper/ People / Females @2011-2016 Aveku-chan-Kataang
 YES! C'MON! 8DDD
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ava-burton-writing:

dragonenby:

writingwithcolor:

so-many-miles-to-go:

aworldinneedofmagic:

the-independent-jew:

so-many-miles-to-go:

smol-mother-rose:

so-many-miles-to-go:


Yeah, there’s a reason for that.
It’s called: antisemitic caricature.


I don’t understand what’s Jewish about mother gothel… she has a typical Disney face doesn’t she? Is it the curly hair..? I mean her nose and everything else seem normal? 
I’m sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.

dark curly hair - long hooked nose - darker complexion than the blond blue eyed heroine 9and really the rest of the cast - portrayed as greedy and evil.
Lisa Edelstein is Jewish.  As are Idina Menzel and Amy Winehouse, both of whom I have seen compared in looks to Gothel.  Gothel’s design is a pretty clear caricature of ethnically Jewish women.  
This is a pretty good contrast between Rapunzel and Gothel.  Rapunzel has the “typical Disney face”:
Here’s a more close up look at her features.
The hooked nose becomes even more pronounced as she becomes “eviler.”
If you wanted to claim that there was noting out of the ordinary for Disney animation when it came to Gothel’s features, you would have to find at least one Disney princess or heroine with similar characteristics (long hooked nose and dark curly hair, etc).
But here is what we have is -
small noses that turn up at the end:
wide, flatter noses (though cheers to Disney for not putting button noses on their characters of color, although Esmerelda’s clothing design deserves another essay on Rromani stereotypes and there are some major issues with Pocahontas as well)
And then a few misc noses (again, props for Jasmine’s nose not being a button):
Apart from just the design of Gothel, there’s also the whole: “obviously ‘other’ (read Jewish) woman kidnaps the pretty blonde (read: gentile) kid to use her for ritualistic/magical purposes”
Like that right there on top of the aesthetic Jewish-coding is what pushed the antisemitic caricature over the top for me.  It harkens back to antisemitic blood libel that claimed that Jews stole gentile children for all manner of nefarious reasons. Even when Gothel is in “mother” role to Rapunzel, she’s is shown as nagging and passive aggressive, both antisemitic stereotypes of Jewish women.
There is no one thing that makes her an antisemitic caricature, but the design, plus the storyline she plays out, plus her characterization cement the overall character as antisemitic.  
Jew-coding a villain is not in itself always antisemitic when there are also Jewish coded heroes. Rapunzel does not have that.
Having a villain steal a baby for magical/ritualistic reasons is not always antisemitic as long as the villain is not Jew-coded.  Rapunzel fails this as well.
Having a nagging and passive aggressive mother character is not antisemitic provided that she is not, again, coded as Jewish.  Rapunzel fails once again.
Hope this helps.
EDIT: @ariminak pointed out that some of my wording made it sound like Gothel’s features only stereotypically caricatured Ashkenazi women when in fact that is not the case.  I changed the language to remove that phrasing and make it clear that any ethnically Jewish women can be affected by this type of aesthetic trope. If you reblogged the old version, could you please delete it and reblog this one instead.

Spread this version so people recognize that this stuff harms all Jewish women. 

omfg can y’all chill the fuck out, any race can be portrayed as hero or villain, it’s a fucking kids movie not a political statement

So I’m guessing you’re white and a gentile. As such, you’ve more than likely grown up looking at tv and movies and fairytales and seeing your face in those of the heroes.
Jewish people don’t get that.  When we are portrayed in live action, our characters are more often than not whitewashed and in other media, our features are used and caricaturized to create “evil looking” villains.
You don’t see it because you’ve been ingrained with the idea that “ethnic” features are just “how you make a character look evil.”  You don’t look at Gothel and see your mother.  You don’t see yourself and your people.  You don’t see decades of propaganda aimed at fostering hate against you and ultimately seeking to destroy you.  
But seeing how you also seem to think that saying you’re not attracted to an entire race of people ISN’T racist, you really don’t get any say on any of this.
So really, you need to chill the fuck out and stop telling marginalized people to stop talking about the tools of our own marginalization.
Let’s play a game I like to call: Movie Villain or Antisemitic Propaganda:
Many “evil witch” tropes were built on European antisemitic stereotypes, not just in appearance but in the storylines they play out as well. Greediness, stealing children, killing children, hunger for power, etc.  Every time a movie villain design uses stereotyped Jewish features to communicate “evilness” to an audience, they perpetuate the marginalization of the people they are using. 
One big issue I have is that Gothel’s didn’t start out as the antisemitic caricature that made it to screen.  Much of the early concept art has a more dark romanticism feel.  
They changed the original design. Presumably to make Gothel more “other” from the good characters in the movie.  At some point, a decision was made that dark curly hair and a hooked nose wound better convey their villain.
It really doesn’t matter if any of this was intentional, I’d actually bet that it wasn’t.  However, antisemitic tropes are so engrained in our societies that people like you, even when confronted with a step by step break down of what it is, feel comfortable thinking that there’s nothing wrong with it and mocking those calling it out as if we are overreacting.
You seem to have completely ignored the majority of my post.  It is the character design, plus the characterization, plus the story line that mirrors blood libel that makes Gothel an antisemitic character.  It’s not just about someone of a certain race or ethnicity being a villain.  It’s about how stereotypes of a certain ethnic group are understood as “villainous” due to villains being repeatedly coded as Jewish over decades of film and tv.
And contrary to your naive belief, all media is political to some extent. Every time a historically present minority is not included in film (ex: lily-white Harlem in Fantastical Beasts) or when a minority character is whitewashed, or when the “ethnic” features of a minority are used almost universally to portray bad guys, it is a political and social issue.  When you never see yourselves as the people who play the hero or even see your people existing in a portrayal of a place where they should be, it is not benign.

Reblogging again for these additions.


I’m not Jewish, but I can imagine seeing yourself villanized again and again must wear on you so hard (like queer coded villains do on me). The stereotypes are so insidious, I didn’t even realize she was Jewish coded until I saw this post for the first time, and since then I’ve been able to pick up on more anti-semitic media.
Stay cognizant!  

This is a writing blog so fellow writers! Please take a good look at your villains— even if they’re not Jewish, it can be antisemitic. Thanks. - A Jew™️

I feel like you guys want to be offended. its called shape theory and character design. I haven’t met a single Jew that has a hooked nose and jews are not the only the only ethnicity with lightish brown skin and curly black hair. for example, ME I’m Mexican and have those features I have met a woman for MADRID who looks EXACTLY like the woman above. and her accent sounds a lot more Spanish than Jewish (which would make sense because Rapunzel takes place in Germany and Spain is pretty damn close by.


Also she just straight up does not have a hooked nose. Not anything like those caricatures anyway. In the shot where she’s in profile it doesn’t look hooked at all.

galotheshroom: ava-burton-writing: dragonenby: writingwithcolor: so-many-miles-to-go: aworldinneedofmagic: the-independent-jew: so-man...

Espn, Football, and Memes: There's a bigger picture most people aren't understanding about this whole kneeling thing!! The goal of the globalists is the dismantling of our American heritage, and thereby the distruction of our identity as a nation. Removing historical statues is the beginning. Removing the flag and the anthem is next. Ultimately the goal is to remove the constitution. If we keep giving in and continue to accept the dismantling of our culture and the removal of our heritage, then we become what the globalists want... A 3rd world country prime for socialist control. This tactic isn't new. It has been their game plan for a long time. There are many writings explaining this movement. We are seeing it unfold before our eyes. It's deeper than what you see on the surface. No matter how tired you are of listening to the back and forth about the flag and our anthem, you mustn't grow weary! Don't allow yourself to get to the point where you say Just stop playing the anthem at sporting events' so we can get back to football. Just letting crap go is why we're here in the first place. MAKE THIS GO VIRAL!!! The big picture This kneeling issue is bigger than most people can see. The globalist’s goal is to destroy our American heritage, taking apart our entire American identity. They remove our historical statues. Their next move is to remove the National Anthem from our sports and other activities…an act which ESPN just did with the removal of the anthem from Monday night football broadcasts. Their ultimate goal is to remove the Constitution. If we continue to cave to their agenda, if we continue to dismantle our heritage, then we will become a third world nation, ripe for the picking of socialists-communists. It’s not a new plan. It’s been around for a long time. There are written documents explaining the globalist movement. We are seeing them begin to come to fruition now. It’s deeper than just a bunch of millionaire football players. Please don’t become weary of the constant “back and forth” over the National Anthem and flag. Don’t allow yourself to say just stop the anthem like so many are doing. Letting this go is why we are in this mess in the first place. Make this go viral!
Espn, Football, and Memes: There's a bigger picture most people aren't
 understanding about this whole kneeling thing!!
 The goal of the globalists is the dismantling of our
 American heritage, and thereby the distruction of our
 identity as a nation. Removing historical statues is the
 beginning. Removing the flag and the anthem is next.
 Ultimately the goal is to remove the constitution. If we
 keep giving in and continue to accept the dismantling
 of our culture and the removal of our heritage, then
 we become what the globalists want... A 3rd world
 country prime for socialist control. This tactic isn't
 new. It has been their game plan for a long time. There
 are many writings explaining this movement. We are
 seeing it unfold before our eyes. It's deeper than what
 you see on the surface.
 No matter how tired you are of listening to the back
 and forth about the flag and our anthem, you mustn't
 grow weary! Don't allow yourself to get to the point
 where you say Just stop playing the anthem at
 sporting events' so we can get back to football. Just
 letting crap go is why we're here in the first place.
 MAKE THIS GO VIRAL!!!
The big picture This kneeling issue is bigger than most people can see. The globalist’s goal is to destroy our American heritage, taking apart our entire American identity. They remove our historical statues. Their next move is to remove the National Anthem from our sports and other activities…an act which ESPN just did with the removal of the anthem from Monday night football broadcasts. Their ultimate goal is to remove the Constitution. If we continue to cave to their agenda, if we continue to dismantle our heritage, then we will become a third world nation, ripe for the picking of socialists-communists. It’s not a new plan. It’s been around for a long time. There are written documents explaining the globalist movement. We are seeing them begin to come to fruition now. It’s deeper than just a bunch of millionaire football players. Please don’t become weary of the constant “back and forth” over the National Anthem and flag. Don’t allow yourself to say just stop the anthem like so many are doing. Letting this go is why we are in this mess in the first place. Make this go viral!

The big picture This kneeling issue is bigger than most people can see. The globalist’s goal is to destroy our American heritage, taking apa...

Adam Driver, Anaconda, and Apparently: Sean T. Collins Follow @theseantcollins weird that the person they went after from Ghostbusters was Leslie Jones. weird that the person they went after from Star Wars was Kelly Marie Tran. what on earth could explain this 5:29 AM 5 Jun 2018 7,482 Retweets 31,087 Likes rockyrz: libertarirynn: siryouarebeingmocked: grumpy-goompa: siryouarebeingmocked: skeleton-jack: cookingwithroxy: siryouarebeingmocked: derpomatic: siryouarebeingmocked: theunnamedstranger: siryouarebeingmocked: theindependentconservative: siryouarebeingmocked: friendly-neighborhood-ehrhardt: triggeredmedia: Bad acting and bad characters? other actors in those movies/franchises got shit from trolls too. melissa mccarthy. hayden christiansen. jake lloyd. laura dern. the difference is that all these media outlets didnt declare it a public crises keep reporting on it months after it was news.  in fact, jake lloyd probably got it worse than anyone, being an actual child at the time being traumatized for years because of bullying, but no one cared at the time now it only gets brought up as a tacked on example when talking about those awful modern star wars fans. hes a straight white man. what on earth could explain this? in leslie jones case, she turned it into an internet slap fight drew much more attention to her when before that she was getting no more shit than the other leads. look, we should always separate the actor from their role people who attack an actor personally for a role are scumbags, but stop injecting racism sexism into everything then using it as a shield against actual valid criticism. Not to mention Adam Driver. He’s still getting crapped on. People complained that he was playing a Jewish guy infiltrating the Klan in a historical Spike Lee movie, even though he isn’t Jewish, which is apparently Not Allowed. These are popular franchises. If a fraction of a percent of their fans are knob-ends who harass people, that would seem overwhelming to the person on the receiving end. Not to mention Rey’s a Mary Sure now and everyone called it. You do remember that I disagree with the majority opinion, right? Also, people were calling her a Mary Sue from the first movie. Sometimes based on things that literally didn’t happen, like “being a better pilot than Han”. On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life until she could pilot it BETTER than someone who’s had it forever.That’s bullshit. On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life You mean the ship that she explicitly called “junk”? The one she says she advised against certain modifications for? The one owned by the Quarter Portion guy, who used to be her guardian, as we see in the flashback? How does Rey fly the ship better than Han? Please, I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence for this in over two and a half years, but it’s treated as gospel.  Heck, he didn’t even “have it forever”, he lost it years, maybe decades ago. Better than Han is less important than outflying two Ties on her first attempt. Only due to home ground advantage, vs. two fighters designed mainly for space combat with horrible aerodynamics, and even then, she got Finn’s turret shot. Also, she’s all-but-explicitly shown to be using The Force. The dialogue draws attention to the fact that she’s flying better than she expects. ‘somebody did a thing that is entirely understandable given the context of the prior movies and the actual text of the movie at hand. But for some reason I missed these obvious things so yarrr!’ No I fully accept the explanations for it. I still think it was poorly done and added to Rey’s perception as a Mary Sue who faces no real challenges and succeeds at everything. That there’s an explanation for what she’s doing and how she’s doing it doesn’t change that I and many people think she shouldn’t be doing it in the first place. So, shedloads of people apparently ignored or missed the clear on-screen evidence to complain about this aspect of the movie, but it’s still the movie’s fault that they’re wrong, even when they’re making claims which they could not have reasonably arrived at (EG Rey’s a better pilot than Han.), and the only possible explanation is “fandom misconceptions”? just because she succeeded (lived) doesn’t mean Rey herself experienced these things as ‘easy’. how many movies out there does the hero do something unexpectedly and benefit from the results? like maybe all of them? movies would be boring if characters are powerless the entire time until the exact one moment they need to win. they need to succeed and stumble a little bit along the way. little wins and little losses until the end. if she got her arm cut off, would that remove people’s mary sue label? Thing is, people ignore the actual struggles she went through just because they have a Narrative. She didn’t just beat Kylo, he knocked her out pretty much instantly, and then Fin bought her time, and then she temporarily forced Ben back (IIRC, the book says she tapped into the Dark Side). We don’t even know if he would’ve been able to win if he got up, or even if he could get up. And this was while Kylo was bleeding out from a high-powered weapon, which the movie takes pain to remind us of. But the fanbase acts like Rey apparently beat Ben with one hand tied behind her back, wearing a blindfold, while suffering from some hideous space-combination of Avian Flu and Ebola Zaire. I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I thought I was the only one in the more conservative camp that doesn’t agree that Rey is a Mary Sue. There is lots of in-text explanation for why she excels at certain things as well as the time honored “because the Force“ answer which has applied to a lot of characters besides her. And she absolutely does have struggles even if they are primarily in emotional conflict and wrestling with her untapped strength and insecurities about her origins. These are what make the character. Calling the whole character a Mary Sue because “she fight too good“ is kind of asinine. And don’t get me started on how they bitch about her beating Kylo and forget that he was mortally wounded at the time, and bitch about her knowing something about the Millennium Falcon and mechanical engineering despite the fact that she was A PROFESSIONAL JUNKER and the ship had been on her planet probably most of her life giving her plenty of time to explore it. But yeah pretending that only the minority actors/actresses get harrassed is bullshit. Rey is 100% a Mary Sue. No training yet managed to beat Kylo Ren, flew a ship across space despite no experience, etc. @rockyrz did you read literally one word from the post above you or are you just gonna keep shouting “she’s a Mary Sue!“ and ignore all evidence to the contrary?“Managed to beat Kylo Ren”BECAUSE HE WAS FUCKING MORTALLY WOUNDED.“flew a ship across space”BECAUSE SHE HAD JUST STATED SHE WAS A PILOT.Like seriously it’s fine if you don’t like the movie but you seem kind of dumb if you just straight up ignore the evidence even it’s right in front of your face so you can keep saying the same thing over and over.
Adam Driver, Anaconda, and Apparently: Sean T. Collins
 Follow
 @theseantcollins
 weird that the person they went after
 from Ghostbusters was Leslie Jones.
 weird that the person they went after
 from Star Wars was Kelly Marie Tran.
 what on earth could explain this
 5:29 AM 5 Jun 2018
 7,482 Retweets 31,087 Likes
rockyrz:
libertarirynn:


siryouarebeingmocked:

grumpy-goompa:

siryouarebeingmocked:

skeleton-jack:

cookingwithroxy:

siryouarebeingmocked:

derpomatic:

siryouarebeingmocked:

theunnamedstranger:

siryouarebeingmocked:

theindependentconservative:

siryouarebeingmocked:

friendly-neighborhood-ehrhardt:

triggeredmedia:
Bad acting and bad characters?
other actors in those movies/franchises got shit from trolls too.
melissa mccarthy. hayden christiansen. jake lloyd. laura dern.
the difference is that all these media outlets didnt declare it a public crises  keep reporting on it months after it was news.
 in fact, jake lloyd probably got it worse than anyone, being an actual child at the time  being traumatized for years because of bullying, but no one cared at the time  now it only gets brought up as a tacked on example when talking about those awful modern star wars fans.  hes a straight white man. what on earth could explain this?
 in leslie jones case, she turned it into an internet slap fight  drew much more attention to her when before that she was getting no more shit than the other leads.
look, we should always separate the actor from their role  people who attack an actor personally for a role are scumbags, but stop injecting racism  sexism into everything  then using it as a shield against actual valid criticism.

Not to mention Adam Driver. He’s still getting crapped on. People complained that he was playing a Jewish guy infiltrating the Klan in a historical Spike Lee movie, even though he isn’t Jewish, which is apparently Not Allowed.
These are popular franchises. If a fraction of a percent of their fans are knob-ends who harass people, that would seem overwhelming to the person on the receiving end.

Not to mention Rey’s a Mary Sure now and everyone called it.

You do remember that I disagree with the majority opinion, right?
Also, people were calling her a Mary Sue from the first movie. Sometimes based on things that literally didn’t happen, like “being a better pilot than Han”.

On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life until she could pilot it BETTER than someone who’s had it forever.That’s bullshit.



On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life 


You mean the ship that she explicitly called “junk”? The one she says she advised against certain modifications for? The one owned by the Quarter Portion guy, who used to be her guardian, as we see in the flashback?
How does Rey fly the ship better than Han? Please, I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence for this in over two and a half years, but it’s treated as gospel. 
Heck, he didn’t even “have it forever”, he lost it years, maybe decades ago.

Better than Han is less important than outflying two Ties on her first attempt.

Only due to home ground advantage, vs. two fighters designed mainly for space combat with horrible aerodynamics, and even then, she got Finn’s turret shot.
Also, she’s all-but-explicitly shown to be using The Force. The dialogue draws attention to the fact that she’s flying better than she expects.

‘somebody did a thing that is entirely understandable given the context of the prior movies and the actual text of the movie at hand. But for some reason I missed these obvious things so yarrr!’


No I fully accept the explanations for it. I still think it was poorly done and added to Rey’s perception as a Mary Sue who faces no real challenges and succeeds at everything.
That there’s an explanation for what she’s doing and how she’s doing it doesn’t change that I and many people think she shouldn’t be doing it in the first place.

So, shedloads of people apparently ignored or missed the clear on-screen evidence to complain about this aspect of the movie, but it’s still the movie’s fault that they’re wrong, even when they’re making claims which they could not have reasonably arrived at (EG Rey’s a better pilot than Han.), and the only possible explanation is “fandom misconceptions”?

just because she succeeded (lived) doesn’t mean Rey herself experienced these things as ‘easy’. how many movies out there does the hero do something unexpectedly and benefit from the results? like maybe all of them? movies would be boring if characters are powerless the entire time until the exact one moment they need to win. they need to succeed and stumble a little bit along the way. little wins and little losses until the end. if she got her arm cut off, would that remove people’s mary sue label?

Thing is, people ignore the actual struggles she went through just because they have a Narrative. She didn’t just beat Kylo, he knocked her out pretty much instantly, and then Fin bought her time, and then she temporarily forced Ben back (IIRC, the book says she tapped into the Dark Side). We don’t even know if he would’ve been able to win if he got up, or even if he could get up. And this was while Kylo was bleeding out from a high-powered weapon, which the movie takes pain to remind us of.
But the fanbase acts like Rey apparently beat Ben with one hand tied behind her back, wearing a blindfold, while suffering from some hideous space-combination of Avian Flu and Ebola Zaire.

I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I thought I was the only one in the more conservative camp that doesn’t agree that Rey is a Mary Sue. There is lots of in-text explanation for why she excels at certain things as well as the time honored “because the Force“ answer which has applied to a lot of characters besides her. And she absolutely does have struggles even if they are primarily in emotional conflict and wrestling with her untapped strength and insecurities about her origins. These are what make the character. Calling the whole character a Mary Sue because “she fight too good“ is kind of asinine. And don’t get me started on how they bitch about her beating Kylo and forget that he was mortally wounded at the time, and bitch about her knowing something about the Millennium Falcon and mechanical engineering despite the fact that she was A PROFESSIONAL JUNKER and the ship had been on her planet probably most of her life giving her plenty of time to explore it.
But yeah pretending that only the minority actors/actresses get harrassed is bullshit.


Rey is 100% a Mary Sue. No training yet managed to beat Kylo Ren, flew a ship across space despite no experience, etc.
@rockyrz did you read literally one word from the post above you or are you just gonna keep shouting “she’s a Mary Sue!“ and ignore all evidence to the contrary?“Managed to beat Kylo Ren”BECAUSE HE WAS FUCKING MORTALLY WOUNDED.“flew a ship across space”BECAUSE SHE HAD JUST STATED SHE WAS A PILOT.Like seriously it’s fine if you don’t like the movie but you seem kind of dumb if you just straight up ignore the evidence even it’s right in front of your face so you can keep saying the same thing over and over.

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Adam Driver, Apparently, and Bad: Sean T. Collins Follow @theseantcollins weird that the person they went after from Ghostbusters was Leslie Jones. weird that the person they went after from Star Wars was Kelly Marie Tran. what on earth could explain this 5:29 AM 5 Jun 2018 7,482 Retweets 31,087 Likes siryouarebeingmocked: grumpy-goompa: siryouarebeingmocked: skeleton-jack: cookingwithroxy: siryouarebeingmocked: derpomatic: siryouarebeingmocked: theunnamedstranger: siryouarebeingmocked: theindependentconservative: siryouarebeingmocked: friendly-neighborhood-ehrhardt: triggeredmedia: Bad acting and bad characters? other actors in those movies/franchises got shit from trolls too. melissa mccarthy. hayden christiansen. jake lloyd. laura dern. the difference is that all these media outlets didnt declare it a public crises keep reporting on it months after it was news.  in fact, jake lloyd probably got it worse than anyone, being an actual child at the time being traumatized for years because of bullying, but no one cared at the time now it only gets brought up as a tacked on example when talking about those awful modern star wars fans. hes a straight white man. what on earth could explain this? in leslie jones case, she turned it into an internet slap fight drew much more attention to her when before that she was getting no more shit than the other leads. look, we should always separate the actor from their role people who attack an actor personally for a role are scumbags, but stop injecting racism sexism into everything then using it as a shield against actual valid criticism. Not to mention Adam Driver. He’s still getting crapped on. People complained that he was playing a Jewish guy infiltrating the Klan in a historical Spike Lee movie, even though he isn’t Jewish, which is apparently Not Allowed. These are popular franchises. If a fraction of a percent of their fans are knob-ends who harass people, that would seem overwhelming to the person on the receiving end. Not to mention Rey’s a Mary Sure now and everyone called it. You do remember that I disagree with the majority opinion, right? Also, people were calling her a Mary Sue from the first movie. Sometimes based on things that literally didn’t happen, like “being a better pilot than Han”. On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life until she could pilot it BETTER than someone who’s had it forever.That’s bullshit. On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life You mean the ship that she explicitly called “junk”? The one she says she advised against certain modifications for? The one owned by the Quarter Portion guy, who used to be her guardian, as we see in the flashback? How does Rey fly the ship better than Han? Please, I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence for this in over two and a half years, but it’s treated as gospel.  Heck, he didn’t even “have it forever”, he lost it years, maybe decades ago. Better than Han is less important than outflying two Ties on her first attempt. Only due to home ground advantage, vs. two fighters designed mainly for space combat with horrible aerodynamics, and even then, she got Finn’s turret shot. Also, she’s all-but-explicitly shown to be using The Force. The dialogue draws attention to the fact that she’s flying better than she expects. ‘somebody did a thing that is entirely understandable given the context of the prior movies and the actual text of the movie at hand. But for some reason I missed these obvious things so yarrr!’ No I fully accept the explanations for it. I still think it was poorly done and added to Rey’s perception as a Mary Sue who faces no real challenges and succeeds at everything. That there’s an explanation for what she’s doing and how she’s doing it doesn’t change that I and many people think she shouldn’t be doing it in the first place. So, shedloads of people apparently ignored or missed the clear on-screen evidence to complain about this aspect of the movie, but it’s still the movie’s fault that they’re wrong, even when they’re making claims which they could not have reasonably arrived at (EG Rey’s a better pilot than Han.), and the only possible explanation is “fandom misconceptions”? just because she succeeded (lived) doesn’t mean Rey herself experienced these things as ‘easy’. how many movies out there does the hero do something unexpectedly and benefit from the results? like maybe all of them? movies would be boring if characters are powerless the entire time until the exact one moment they need to win. they need to succeed and stumble a little bit along the way. little wins and little losses until the end. if she got her arm cut off, would that remove people’s mary sue label? Thing is, people ignore the actual struggles she went through just because they have a Narrative. She didn’t just beat Kylo, he knocked her out pretty much instantly, and then Fin bought her time, and then she temporarily forced Ben back (IIRC, the book says she tapped into the Dark Side). We don’t even know if he would’ve been able to win if he got up, or even if he could get up. And this was while Kylo was bleeding out from a high-powered weapon, which the movie takes pain to remind us of. But the fanbase acts like Rey apparently beat Ben with one hand tied behind her back, wearing a blindfold, while suffering from some hideous space-combination of Avian Flu and Ebola Zaire. I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I thought I was the only one in the more conservative camp that doesn’t agree that Rey is a Mary Sue. There is lots of in-text explanation for why she excels at certain things as well as the time honored “because the Force“ answer which has applied to a lot of characters besides her. And she absolutely does have struggles even if they are primarily in emotional conflict and wrestling with her untapped strength and insecurities about her origins. These are what make the character. Calling the whole character a Mary Sue because “she fight too good“ is kind of asinine. And don’t get me started on how they bitch about her beating Kylo and forget that he was mortally wounded at the time, and bitch about her knowing something about the Millennium Falcon and mechanical engineering despite the fact that she was A PROFESSIONAL JUNKER and the ship had been on her planet probably most of her life giving her plenty of time to explore it.But yeah pretending that only the minority actors/actresses get harrassed is bullshit.
Adam Driver, Apparently, and Bad: Sean T. Collins
 Follow
 @theseantcollins
 weird that the person they went after
 from Ghostbusters was Leslie Jones.
 weird that the person they went after
 from Star Wars was Kelly Marie Tran.
 what on earth could explain this
 5:29 AM 5 Jun 2018
 7,482 Retweets 31,087 Likes
siryouarebeingmocked:
grumpy-goompa:

siryouarebeingmocked:

skeleton-jack:

cookingwithroxy:

siryouarebeingmocked:

derpomatic:

siryouarebeingmocked:

theunnamedstranger:

siryouarebeingmocked:

theindependentconservative:

siryouarebeingmocked:

friendly-neighborhood-ehrhardt:

triggeredmedia:
Bad acting and bad characters?
other actors in those movies/franchises got shit from trolls too.
melissa mccarthy. hayden christiansen. jake lloyd. laura dern.
the difference is that all these media outlets didnt declare it a public crises  keep reporting on it months after it was news.
 in fact, jake lloyd probably got it worse than anyone, being an actual child at the time  being traumatized for years because of bullying, but no one cared at the time  now it only gets brought up as a tacked on example when talking about those awful modern star wars fans.  hes a straight white man. what on earth could explain this?
 in leslie jones case, she turned it into an internet slap fight  drew much more attention to her when before that she was getting no more shit than the other leads.
look, we should always separate the actor from their role  people who attack an actor personally for a role are scumbags, but stop injecting racism  sexism into everything  then using it as a shield against actual valid criticism.

Not to mention Adam Driver. He’s still getting crapped on. People complained that he was playing a Jewish guy infiltrating the Klan in a historical Spike Lee movie, even though he isn’t Jewish, which is apparently Not Allowed.
These are popular franchises. If a fraction of a percent of their fans are knob-ends who harass people, that would seem overwhelming to the person on the receiving end.

Not to mention Rey’s a Mary Sure now and everyone called it.

You do remember that I disagree with the majority opinion, right?
Also, people were calling her a Mary Sue from the first movie. Sometimes based on things that literally didn’t happen, like “being a better pilot than Han”.

On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life until she could pilot it BETTER than someone who’s had it forever.That’s bullshit.



On a ship she had literally never seen before in her life 


You mean the ship that she explicitly called “junk”? The one she says she advised against certain modifications for? The one owned by the Quarter Portion guy, who used to be her guardian, as we see in the flashback?
How does Rey fly the ship better than Han? Please, I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence for this in over two and a half years, but it’s treated as gospel. 
Heck, he didn’t even “have it forever”, he lost it years, maybe decades ago.

Better than Han is less important than outflying two Ties on her first attempt.

Only due to home ground advantage, vs. two fighters designed mainly for space combat with horrible aerodynamics, and even then, she got Finn’s turret shot.
Also, she’s all-but-explicitly shown to be using The Force. The dialogue draws attention to the fact that she’s flying better than she expects.

‘somebody did a thing that is entirely understandable given the context of the prior movies and the actual text of the movie at hand. But for some reason I missed these obvious things so yarrr!’


No I fully accept the explanations for it. I still think it was poorly done and added to Rey’s perception as a Mary Sue who faces no real challenges and succeeds at everything.
That there’s an explanation for what she’s doing and how she’s doing it doesn’t change that I and many people think she shouldn’t be doing it in the first place.

So, shedloads of people apparently ignored or missed the clear on-screen evidence to complain about this aspect of the movie, but it’s still the movie’s fault that they’re wrong, even when they’re making claims which they could not have reasonably arrived at (EG Rey’s a better pilot than Han.), and the only possible explanation is “fandom misconceptions”?

just because she succeeded (lived) doesn’t mean Rey herself experienced these things as ‘easy’. how many movies out there does the hero do something unexpectedly and benefit from the results? like maybe all of them? movies would be boring if characters are powerless the entire time until the exact one moment they need to win. they need to succeed and stumble a little bit along the way. little wins and little losses until the end. if she got her arm cut off, would that remove people’s mary sue label?

Thing is, people ignore the actual struggles she went through just because they have a Narrative. She didn’t just beat Kylo, he knocked her out pretty much instantly, and then Fin bought her time, and then she temporarily forced Ben back (IIRC, the book says she tapped into the Dark Side). We don’t even know if he would’ve been able to win if he got up, or even if he could get up. And this was while Kylo was bleeding out from a high-powered weapon, which the movie takes pain to remind us of.
But the fanbase acts like Rey apparently beat Ben with one hand tied behind her back, wearing a blindfold, while suffering from some hideous space-combination of Avian Flu and Ebola Zaire.
I’m so glad I’m not crazy. I thought I was the only one in the more conservative camp that doesn’t agree that Rey is a Mary Sue. There is lots of in-text explanation for why she excels at certain things as well as the time honored “because the Force“ answer which has applied to a lot of characters besides her. And she absolutely does have struggles even if they are primarily in emotional conflict and wrestling with her untapped strength and insecurities about her origins. These are what make the character. Calling the whole character a Mary Sue because “she fight too good“ is kind of asinine. And don’t get me started on how they bitch about her beating Kylo and forget that he was mortally wounded at the time, and bitch about her knowing something about the Millennium Falcon and mechanical engineering despite the fact that she was A PROFESSIONAL JUNKER and the ship had been on her planet probably most of her life giving her plenty of time to explore it.But yeah pretending that only the minority actors/actresses get harrassed is bullshit.

siryouarebeingmocked: grumpy-goompa: siryouarebeingmocked: skeleton-jack: cookingwithroxy: siryouarebeingmocked: derpomatic: siryouare...